he's running against his own healthcare bill when he criticizes president obama's healthcare bill. so i think it is good the country's having this debate over the size and role of government. and i think if president obama wins, whether he really represents what his enemies say he represents, i think it will validate the other side that says there is a role for the size of government that we have now. >> eliot: before you jump in i want to say one thing. there is the philosophical conversation, in a way the more important one. a factual statement you made which i do disagree with. president obama's responsible for the largest increase in our deficit and it is his policies that got us there. yes, the increase in the deficit has occurred while he is president but the reason -- the reason why we have that increase is the bush tax cuts, the wars that president bush got us into and the combination of those two is responsible for over that 60% of the debt. i think that's a fact that we could prove as a factual matter. >> governor, i disagree with you there. as i said earlier the debt for